New evidence of George Zimmerman’s racial attitudes

(One reader left a comment that s/he wasn’t able to view the documents embedded in this post. If you have trouble viewing either the YouTube video or the two documents, please leave a comment and let me know.)

On the night of December 4th, 2010, Sherman Ware, a homeless man, was trying to break up a fight outside the Wet Spot, a bar in Sanford, Florida. Just then, Justin Collison, 21, walked out of the bar, came up behind Ware, and punched him hard in the back of the head. Ware pitched forward, hit his head on a steel light pole, and fell to the ground, apparently unconscious. There Collison hit him again, and apparently called him a “nigger” several times. Collison then walked down the sidewalk, grabbed another man, and attacked him. The police came, but did not arrest, handcuff or even pat down Collison.

Collison had previously been arrested for shooting into a vehicle; the charges were later dropped. Collison is also the son of Sanford Police Lieutenant Chris Collison.

Here is an Orlando Sentinel article on the incident, and here’s a video taken by a bystander (the attack on Ware takes place in the first 10 seconds):

A white man, the son of a local police officer, sucker punched a black man in an unprovoked attack, and was not charged with any crime. It was just one act of violence among many, of course, and although apparently some people were outraged by it, nobody did much of anything about it.

Except George Zimmerman.

Zimmerman spent hours leafleting cars, handing out flyers to people, and organizing a meeting at City Hall the following month to address the apparent miscarriage of justice.

So says a relative of Zimmerman’s in a letter to Turner Clayton, head of the Seminole County, Florida, NAACP. The Daily Caller obtained and published the letter Monday. The Caller says they have confirmed the family member’s identity, but didn’t publish it out of concern for the Zimmerman family’s safety.

The letter says, in part:

The main point for this letter is to explain to you that the black community has labeled George a racist without any investigation at all. Regardless of the fact that George personally spoke to many of your constituents, not one has stepped forward and said, Hey, I know that face. That is the Hispanic guy that was standing up for Sherman Ware. That was the only non-black face in the meetings for justice in this case. You know as well as I do that there are many NAACP followers that recognize George from the Ware case as well as many other good things that he’s done for the black community. It’s time for you to end the race issue in this matter and call for cooler heads to prevail. If something happens to George as a result of the race furor stirred up by this mischaracterization of George there will be blood on your hands as well as the rest of the racists that have rushed to judgment. You need to call off the dogs. Period. Publicly and swiftly.

Here’s the letter:

 

(If the document space is blank on your screen, please click on the hyperlink, “View this document on Scribd.”)

Here’s the flyer Zimmerman distributed:

 

And here’s strong evidence that these documents are telling the truth: Instead of repudiating the letter as untrue and the flyer as fabricated, last Friday (before the documents became public on Monday), Clayton repudiated Al Sharpton’s call to take protests to an unspecified “next level” if Zimmerman isn’t arrested.

Is George Zimmerman a racist? What do you think?

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43 thoughts on “New evidence of George Zimmerman’s racial attitudes

  1. I think that you need to fix the document by George Zimmerman so we can view his so-called flyer asking for justice. Right now its a whole bunch of scribble scrabble that no one can understand

    • Thanks, a williams. Please just click on the “View the document on Scribd” hyperlink below the document screen. I think that ought to get you there. Please let me know if this works for you. If it doesn’t, I’ll try to display the documents a different way.

      You can also view the letter here and the flyer here. In both cases you’ll need to scroll down to the bottom of the article to view the document.

  2. I never saw this as a race crime, but as one by a self appointed ‘power freak’.
    Obviously from all his numerous 911 calls, he thought himself above the normal citizen and loved the glory that came from being ‘better’ the rest of society.
    I think he went looking for trouble and having possibly caused an altercation, took justice into his own hands, for his own glorification.
    On the other hand, the ones calling it a hate crime are the same ones who bear the most fault for most crime.

  3. J.O. diagnosed the problem pretty well.

    Zimmerman now needs his day in court so that we all feel like at least the process was attempted. Folks with handguns following other “suspicious” folks around is not for civilians.

    • Hi, Martin, and welcome. You raise an interesting issue. Is that why we should try him? So that the rest of us can feel good about the way it ends? So that the rest of the country, watching the soap opera unfold, can experience some sort of catharsis? That certainly seems like the sort of society we’re moving toward. But I don’t think the rest of us are actually owed anything here, are we?

      • Of course we are! “Justice” is a public concept. In a monarchy, no one is held accountable. Individual rights are only possible if the group allows them.

        • Martin, in a monarchy evryone except the monarch and his friends are held accountable. Zimmerman holds no royal status as I can tell. Second, justice does not mean that every person investigated must be brought before the jury for a trial, that is why we have investigators, prosecutors, judges and juries. The idea of justice, and I am in no way attempting to put words in your mouth, in this case appears to be nothing less than a public lynching for most people. Lastly, individual rights are endowed by our creator and not given by the group, they are denied by the group or individuals, but they are not given. That is not how this country works.
          If George Zimmerman was defending himself and ther is no need for a trial then don’t waste the time and effort. If Zimmerman instigated the confrontaiton and elevated it to the violent conclusion then yes he should stand trial, but as far as I know most people are only going by skewed facts the media has been manipulating.

          • Mike, I’m an attorney. At this point, BECAUSE of the public outcry, Zimmerman should be charged. A judge will then review the case before allowing it to go to trial, and if there is not enough evidence, he will toss it. There may be a lot of folks involved in the justice system but I’ll wait for a judge’s opinion any day.

        • Martin,
          Yes, justice is a public concept. It is also universal. An injustice to one is an injustice to all. However, forcing someone to stand trial—not because there are sufficient facts to support charges—but because of the political pressure brought to bear on the issue is not justice. It is tyranny. Tyranny is still tyranny whether the product of a monarchy or “the group”.
          Stephen

          • Stephen, see my response above.

            A lot of people forget that 40% of the population on both sides think the other side is completely wrong! Our justice system is the only thing holding this mess together. If you don’t make allowances for suspicions and outrage then it will fall apart.

          • Martin,

            What legal theory are you do you have in mind here? The Fifth Amendment provides that no person shall be deprived of liberty without due process of law. Can you cite a case for me where a court has held that public outcry amounts to due process?

            (Surely you are not suggesting that being arrested does not constitute a deprivation of liberty. Are you?)

            Stephen

          • So far, there hasn’t been much “due process” – isn’t that the whole problem?! I want to hear what a judge has to say.

            Frankly, I can’t understand what the hold up is? A disturbed man with a handgun followed around an innocent man and killed him. How can that NOT get judicial review?

          • Martin, whether either of the men, or neither of the men, or both of the men, were either “disturbed” or “innocent” are facts not yet known to us. It has been reported that a Grand Jury is proceeding with a an investigation determined to ascertain that information. That is “due process”, the public’s demand for instant gratification notwithstanding.

          • A Grand Jury sounds like “due process” to me. I think the issue is that until the public outcry there wasn’t going to be a Grand Jury.

          • Martin,

            I have just reviewed our last several comments and realize that we are very off topic. The original post dealt with the racist element in the public hysteria that has grown out of this incident. We have rabbit trailed into arguing due process. Perhaps we should take that discussion elsewhere.
            Stephen

    • I’m fine with rabbit trails! I’ve just been having trouble finding time to come walk them.

      Martin, you say *because* of the public outcry Zimmerman should be charged. If a black man in Alabama in 1940 failed to yield the sidewalk to a white woman and a public outcry ensued, should he have been arrested and charged *because* of the public outcry?

      • Public outcry versus dues process. Mob rule and presumption of guilt based on what the media has reported seems to be the answer.
        The case is being investigated again. It was apparently investigated before.
        I would hope that the special prosecutor investigating the case will consider law and fact rather than mob rule, media speculation and public opinion before bringing the case before a judge, as the grand jury will appparently not convine.
        Martin I wonder what type of law you practice. I hope you are not a ddefense attorney, because I would be scared to have an attorney who was hyped on on my case going to trial over public opinion.
        I keep wondering if the AG Holder will make sure and get a bogus civil rights conviction if Florida fails to concede to the public opinion of the whipped up masses.

        • Whatever you say, whatever I say, whatever anybody says, even if the ELECTED prosecutor chooses not to press a criminal charge so that no Superior Court judge ever gets to give an opinion on the merits of the case – no matter what, certainly Zimmerman will be tried in Civil Court. Unfortunately, the bereaved family will have to pay for it but at least the public will know that some kind of justice was meted out. This is how they finally got O.J.

          p.s. You’d know that if you went to Law School.

          • Martin, I went to law school, as a matter of fact. But I don’t think that’s particularly germane to this conversation. The rest of us are trying to discuss a fact pattern and its implications, not trying to somehow prove our personal superiority over the others. This is the second time you’ve trotted out your credentials. Could you confine yourself to the fact set under discussion and not keep veering off into your personal life? I think that will make both for a more civil and for a more relevant conversation.

          • That’s the 2nd time you’ve made this personal. Please refer to me as Dr. Hash from now on, thank you.

          • Martin,
            Referring to a civil suit in this matter, you said, “Unfortunately, the bereaved family will have to pay for it but at least the public will know that some kind of justice was meted out.”

            No, don’t think so. There are enough ambulance chasing lawyers around who are willing to take the case for the publicity and whatever money they hope to get out it that the man’s family will not have to put out any money.

            And, I didn’t have to go to law school to learn that. (Just kidding)

  4. Hi J.O.,

    I never saw this as a race crime either. Those who did, did so before there was enough known about the matter to reach such a conclusion, whether that is the correct conclusion or not.

    I think that is what bothers me most about incidents such as this. One person is dead. And another person has taken a human life–very possibly—an innocent human life. For those of us who know so little about how this tragedy came to pass to be judging those who are involved seems unfair and almost callous toward the families of both Martin and Zimmerman.

    There will be time enough for judging when sufficient facts are known that our judging can be productive toward finding solutions to the cause. Until then we may just be spreading rumors. And that can very destructive to the families that have to re-construct their lives in the aftermath of this emotional chaos that their present lives have become.

    Having said that, we are well within the perimeters of valid discourse to be criticizing the race-baiters and political opportunists who are exploiting this incident, and the unfortunate families involved, for their own personal or collective interests. That, we do have enough information to form conclusions about, thanks in no small part to Carolyn and others who are making an honest effort through publishing articles such as this one to help us know what the other news sources are not telling us.

    Stephen

    • >>There will be time enough for judging when sufficient facts are known that our judging can be productive toward finding solutions to the cause.

      Stephen, I don’t think sufficient facts will ever be known to most of us to make our judging productive. That’s part of what bothers me about this case. If, as Martin suggests, Zimmerman is tried, twelve good people and true (we hope) will sit through hours of testimony and exhibits (which most of us will never sift through en toto) before coming to a verdict.

      And if any of us does take the time to sift carefully through all the trial transcripts, I would have to wonder why. The whole country focusing on the tragedy of these two families, of this one community, has a very voyeuristic feel to it. It’s not like we don’t have young men (and women, and children) dying violently in our own neck of the woods. Shouldn’t we be minding our own houses first?

      I realize there’s a certain irony in me saying this after I’ve just added to the innumerable posts and articles on the subject [grins sheepishly]. I thought the content of the flyer was quite striking in view of what’s been said and implied about Zimmerman-as-racist. However I actually haven’t read much about this case, and have no opinion on the larger questions of whether he is a power freak, or whether he is guilty of a crime under the laws of the State of Florida–for the simple reason that I figure all that is for the police, prosecutors and (possibly) courts of Seminole County, Florida to sort out–being on the scene, and having rules of evidence–not for the rest of us to try casually through innuendo and hearsay in the press.

      • You are right Carolyn, we will probably never know enough of this incident to judge Zimmerman. However, we may learn enough to determine what some of the decisions were made which lead to the tragedy.

        It has been my experience that incidents of this type are seldom entirely unavoidable. There is usually a series of bad decisions which leads to the circumstances from which the event is the natural consequence.

        Perhaps Trayvon made some less than wise decisions. Perhaps Zimmerman did also. Perhaps the HOA of the gated community did not use good thinking in the way it setup and operated its neighborhood watch. Then again, perhaps such things are just unavoidable and there is nothing productive that can be learned from them.

        None of that is knowable at this time and none of the ongoing speculation is productive. That could change as more facts are developed and become known.

        What we do know now, and can be searching for solutions to, is the media’s insatiable appetite for the racist hatred spewed by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. And you are right that we do have enough such events of this type to focus our local attention on. We also have our own local race-baiting ambulance-chaser, the Rev. Roy Haynes and his Albina Ministries.

        The damage they do to the families in these cases is as incalculable as it is under reported. It is by the publishing of articles such as this one that you help to shed light on their preconceived biases—and that is productive.

  5. I read through most of the comments here and find it interesting that no credibility is given to the common experience. Whenever people of color speak out against the extreme outcome (Trayvon Martin) of what we experience daily (millions of us can’t be crazy) the default excuse is, “Well, you don’t really know what happened.” You don’t have to be able to prove it to know wrong was done. I experienced two incidences in Florida with my 20 year old stemming from the mentality that is not unique to zimmerman less than a month before Trayvon’s death. He walks past a sign in a restaurant window that says “no coloreds allowed” everyday, on his way to school. But it happens everywhere, all the time. We cope with it, mostly, teaching our children as best we can how to handle profiling, until someone dies. The verbatim 911 call recordings speak for themselves as far as Zimmerman’s motivation for deciding Trayvon Martin did not belong in his neighborhood. But the reason for the outrage is not Zimmerman’s racist mentality. It is over what amounts to approval of the execution (he was unarmed and approached by a man with a gun) of yet another black kid by a system that didnt see it as worth investigating. You can argue all day about what you believe and the “rush to judgment” (those who judged the inaction by the police as appropriate are basing it on just as little or as much information as those who believe more should have been done). But what you can’t do is dismiss the experiences of millions who live what happened to end in death for Trayvon Martin every single day.

    • Welcome, Kairis.

      The problem I see in choosing Trayvon Martin as the poster child for violence against young black men is that his killer is the wrong color. In 2009, 352 African-Americans were killed by white people, according to the FBI. In that same year, 4,094 were killed by other African-Americans. So the “common experience” of young black men who are victims of violence is that the violence is perpetrated by another black man. When someone says that black people are the victims of violence way out of all proportion to their numbers, I’m nodding right along. But, by seizing on the Trayvon Martin case, the President, Rev. Sharpton and others seem to be trying to appropriating the victim mantle for the black community without also assuming the aggressor mantle. If they want the first, they have to own up to and accept responsibility for the second. Because the “execution” of black kids is being done, overwhelmingly, by other black kids. Please see my post, “Black-on-black violence: the elephant in the room.”

      • And that’s where the confusion lies with the issue. When those other 4,000+ murders were committed, something was done about it (Look at the prison population. Crimes real and imagined result is arrests and jail time significantly more often for black males–even for the same crimes and criminal history as their white counterparts. Remember the drug raids in Texas?). Again, its not Zimmerman’s race its the fact that we KNOW if Trayvon had been caucasian something would have been done about it. And the fact that he is black is the reason it wasn’t. Zimmerman’s sentiments and actions are a reflection of the climate, the mentality of Florida’s law enforcement. And judging from what I have personally witnessed, it doesn’t end there.

        • Hi Kairis,

          You said, “..its not Zimmerman’s race its the fact that we KNOW if Trayvon had been Caucasian [sic] something would have been done about it.”

          On January 19th a suspected prowler wearing a black hooded sweatshirt was shot and killed by a white man claiming self-defense in La Center. The shooter was not arrested and was not subsequently charged.

          No Al Sharpton. No Jesse Jackson. No New Black Panthers. No Martin Hash. No national media interest. Was that because the dead man was a Caucasian? If he had been black it do you think it might have been different? I hate to say it but I think it would have been.

          • By definition the role of an aCtivist/advocate is to speak for the voiceless, the underdog, the under class (within a given culture). The statistics for a black man’s survival (from pre-birth on) are so dismal they need a voice from the beginning. Diluting the focus would cause more damage. Doesn’t lessen the loss of the family of the man who died. Just explains the few leaders we have left, if they even knew about it.

          • >> Crimes real and imagined result is arrests and jail time significantly more often for black males–even for the same crimes and criminal history as their white counterparts.

            I have no data on this, but my personal experience agrees with yours. A family friend broke and entered a house, along with two other young men. Inside, they pistol whipped a man, apparently over a drug deal gone bad. All three were arrested and the charges, to my understanding, were identical in all three cases. Our friend, who had no priors, is biracial and identifies as black, went to prison. The other two young men, who are white, were released from jail on time served.

            >> Diluting the focus would cause more damage.

            I don’t understand what you mean. Could you expand on that?

          • What that means is that the issues plaguing the Black Community are too numerous for our advocates to spread themselves more thinly than they already are. It would also provide the excuse (for those looking for one) that if others are suffering ‘the same’ our situation isn’t as critical as we would have the world believe. That’s the damage.

  6. Kairis,
    Will your advocates not be damaged by the loss of public credibility if they continue to make every incident involving a member of the black community a racists issue when so often it is not a racist issue? In the Trayvon Martin case not enough facts are known for a reasonable person to form a conclusion that race was a causative factor. If it should turn out that it was not a factor then your advocates will be seen as having cried wolf once again. How many times can your advocates repeat the Duke University foul call (to name just one) and hope to have any credibility left at all?

    Moreover, understanding that the issues, “plaguing the Black Community are too numerous for our advocates to spread themselves more thinly than they already are”, would you not think that their limited resources would be more productive if they focused more on the larger problem of black on black crime instead of ignoring that issue and over-hyping the issue of white on black crime?

    • The disdain in your ‘voice’ is evident even through text. It amuses me that anyone would have an issue with a group of people being protective of themselves. You cannot separate a people from their history or expect them to function outside of it. The dynamic within the black community is as wide and varied as the people of whom it is comprised. What’s highlighted in the media gives ‘outsiders’ a slanted view that helps sustain the prejudices that already exist. Nobody called columbine “white on white” crime. Im glad our activists don’t need approval or ‘credibility’ to act on the crisis that many would rather see as our normal state of being. They simply stand in the gap for millions who are systemically disempowered, abused, stripped of civil rights. This Country could not function in its present capacity without an underclass. The Black community makes a convenient scapegoat. Entitlement is so firmly entrenched in the thought processes of many Americans that many walk around angry with the Black people for no other reason than we exist. We will continue to point out injustice so I guess you will continue to be angry.

      For those who have genuine questions, concerns, and simply want additional perspectives to consider, I appreciate you’re engagement in the dialog.

      • Kairis,

        I am attempting to engage in a discussion of the points you have raised and I would like that discussion to be limited to the merits of those points. That you hear a voice of disdain in my text has nothing to with the merits of your points or the validity of the questions I ask. I have no intention of altering my writing style to suit the mood of each individual whose comments I reply to.

        That being said I will briefly address your comment that you are amused that anyone, “..would have an issue with a group of people being protective of themselves.”. I do not have an issue with any group of people protecting themselves. However, I do question the motives of people who only care about protecting themselves against harm done by people of a different race but seem unconcerned about greater harm done to their group by people of their own race. In my view that smacks of racism and opportunism. If you will give me an explanation of that behavior by your advocates, which makes it appear not racist or opportunistic, I am willing to give your explanation due respect and consideration commensurate with the merits of that explanation.

        Yes you are right, no one called the Columbine shootings White-on-White crime. There are no race-cards to be played when White-on-White crime occurs just as there are no race-cards to be played when Black-on-Black crime occurs. Such violence provides no opportunity for race-baiters to exploit. If you have a different view as to why race was not made an issue in the Columbine shootings I would be interested in knowing what it is.

        • It sounds as if you’re saying I should defend or we have no right to speak out against race driven crime because there are problems within the community. Following that logic this Country should never have done anything about 9-11. Racism occurs when one group of people is repressed by another based on race. The actions of Black advocates do limit your personal freedoms in any way. The term ‘black on black crime’ came to be because of our community’s efforts to solve the problem. A people whose leaders were killed, and who were separated unequally then faced the consequences of the weakest being left to fend for themselves did inevitably have problems. Groups who sought to fix disparities within lowest income areas were demonized, targeted and nearly destroyed. Think Black Panther Party. Developers and business men who seek to stimulate economic growth in urban areas are strenuously resisted by city officials who allow crime to run rampant pushing out homeowners and leaving only those who can’t afford to be elsewhere, then install “police sub-stations,” to clear out the “bad” people, and later redevelop the areas at costs that are prohibitive to urban faces who would otherwise reclaim their homes. In New Orleans the floods did the dirty work for them. We see these things all the time. And we hear them being denied by folks who have never been harmed by a black person, who have never set foot in a ‘black’ neighborhood, who believe anyone who isn’t a ‘hood rat’ is well, ‘different,’ who honestly thinks black welfare recipients are the lazy crack heads who drain that destroys this country’s economy and never bothers to look at the statistics and dollars and cents that make that an impossibility or even question where they got the notion… And without time, or even desire to explain, we go back to figuring out other ways to send our kids to college because the housing market crises means banks are no longer allowing “seconds” on our homes, caring for our aging baby boomer parents because the holes in medical insurance and managed health care mean Big Momma’s prescriptions are no longer covered, teaching our teen drivers how to handle being profiled, getting a second or a third degree in an effort to create some sort of job security or rehire-ability, responding to emails when neighbors panic because ‘a gang’ of more than two black teens are chilling in their own neighborhood parks or libraries, getting to the bank early because cashing a regular employment check is going to take 3 forms of ID, two supervisors and an extra 20 minutes, again, getting to the school for the parent advisory committee meetings because some idiot who proclaims themselves to be in charge is going to insist that new computers in the gifted program should be purchased instead of giving $300 for pencils and paper for the after school program that the school refuses to host for the kids the the school district previously labeled ‘the achievement gap’ based on them being ‘black, or Mexican, or poor’ not test scores… Day after month after year.

          The reason you didn’t label Columbine “white on white” crime is because you view it as an anomaly. Whereas your views on “black on black” crime fit what you believe to be the normal state of all of Black America. You are content not to look beyond the images the media spoon feeds you rather seeking the causes because it fits within social Darwinist theories. I notice how often the news says, “a man” when a suspected criminal is Caucasian but labels him by race when he is non-white. I wonder how many non-black people stop to question their responses, what in their experience validates it, when they grab their wife and their dog and cross the street upon sight of one of my sons. I wish more would take the time to ask co-workers what their experiences were around profiling; how many have had to choose their cars, clothes, speech, music, hair not based on their own preference but to take a protective stance, and if it does them any good.

          It was unthinkable, even offensive for you to change the style of your writing so that it was more palatable to me. Not that I was asking you to. I simply made an observation. And yet you expect no less from a black person because somebody got to decide that while non-Americans have speech patterns and clothing and music based on culture, for Black Americans its ignorance and should be changed to conform to the ‘majority’. That’s just a tiny glimpse of the double standard most don’t even realize they carry.
          There are many not-for-profit organizations run by us regular Black folk for combat against the ills in our communities. From disparities in maternal care and poor birth outcomes to education to fatherless-ness to legal and civil rights to neighborhood beautification projects. You’ll not see these as options for donations during your job’s United Way campaign. Most likely you will only hear about one of them when something goes wrong. Whether or not you care to know, we are handling ours. What you called “patriotism” during the 9-11 crises we call “black pride” every day.

          I expect you to be dismissive and insulting of the thoughts I have presented for your consideration. But maybe that was before you knew any of this and you’ll surprise me. Thank you, either way, for the conversation.

          • It seems to me this conversation is unlikely to be productive in its current form because it has devolved largely into a discussion about feelings, which are by their nature individualistic and subjective. Kairis, you say that you hear disdain in Stephen’s words. Maybe there is disdain there. I don’t know. I can’t hear his voice or see his expression or body language–much less see his heart. I do know that print is a notoriously difficult medium in which to read another person’s heart. (I have friends who refuse to carry on any conversation by email other than about when and where to meet, because misunderstandings and hurt feelings have been so frequent, in their experience, when trying to discuss things that matter by email.) So maybe he is disdainful, and maybe he’s not. I can’t tell, and I don’t think you or anyone else can either, actually.

            Alternate scenario: Maybe it’s frustration you’re hearing and reacting to in his voice. He has brought up several points that you’ve ignored:

            * He says there aren’t enough facts known to us about the Martin-Zimmerman encounter to know if it was a race-based altercation. You continue to assume that it was, but haven’t presented any evidence to argue that case.

            * He has asked (twice, I think) why, since African American activists are “spread thin,” we don’t hear them focusing on the over 4,000 black people killed by other black people annually (or at least in 2009), if they want to reduce violent deaths in the black community, rather than on the 350 black deaths attributable to white people. I haven’t heard you answer that.

            Instead, you seem to me to be focusing on unverifiable (or at least unverified, so far) assertions. Without some factual support, they just sit out there–I’m not in a position to either accept or reject them, and so they don’t help advance the conversation. You say, for example, that many (white?) people walk around angry at black people, but you don’t give any evidence for it. So I’m left to evaluate it anecdotally, from my own experience: I’m white, and I don’t. (My best friend is biracial and the mother of a biracial son who identifies as black, and who was my sons’ best friend growing up.) I know a white person who does–my mother’s cousin’s husband in Kansas City. I can’t think of any other white people I know who do as far as I can tell. So there I am. In the absence of some supporting facts, not just anecdotal stories, that assertion just sits there, but doesn’t advance the conversation because I can’t verify it.

            You say Stephen (or maybe the white community in general–can’t find the exact place you said it) is “content not to look beyond the images the media spoon feeds” him, or us. (Do you think the MSM has been biased against the black community in their portrayal of the Martin-Zimmerman tragedy? If so, how?) You say (white?) people never bother to look at the statistics and dollars and cents that support what you’re saying, but you’re not giving me any of those statistics. I’ve given you statistics, and original documents, which you haven’t responded to, haven’t disagreed with, and you’re not giving me anything objective back. I hear and sympathize with life being hard. But the reason I can sympathize is that it’s hard here, too. I have a son who constantly struggles with bullying at school. I have multiple friends who have lost their jobs, lost their homes, can’t pay their medical bills, are in Chapter 7 (unlike Chapter 13, you lose everything in Chapter 7) and so on. They are of various races, ethnic groups, ages and both sexes.

            You have my attention with your comments about being spoon-fed by the MSM, and ignoring the statistics. Now, what are the stats that are important to you?

          • I have given you facts. You choose not to see them and label me sensitive. The number of people who died as a result of 9-11 from 2001 to 2005 is lower than the number of people who have died at the hands of Americans during that same time period. Tangible fact, and yet nobody has issue with US defending and protecting ourselves (arguably only from ourselves and at our own exploited expense looking at airport security). If you can decide to ignore the common experience of another group (funny we believe gay people experience discrimination without having to witness or experience it first hand, we believe suicidal children are in response to bullying, we believe unseasonably cold temps and declining polar bear populations are due to global warming because someone said so on Nat Geo– because you’ve never counted polar bears yourself, does that mean it isn’t happening?) then i will ask you listen again to the 911 calls prior to Trayvon’s death. If Zimmerman’s language doesn’t convince you of his thoughts about Martin’s presence in ‘his’ neighborhood and what criteria he used on sight to decide he didnt belong then nothing i say will. After all, Old Navy sells millions of hooded sweatshirts every year to non-black kids without it bringing them into any harm. Nobody sees trench coats as a potential threat with the possible exception of a bank teller working a summer shift. Two brown eyes? No real threat there. That leaves skin color.

            Welfare recipients make up less than 2% of the country’s population. Black people are not the majority among them. Retired Medicare beneficiaries are subsidized at a rate of $17,000 per year. If the subsidy continues (they live) another 15 years we have paid a quarter of a million dollars, for one person. It would take the average welfare mother of two 3 years to collect $17,000 in Cash Aid. By the time she did a California mom would have 24 months left in benefits for her lifetime. If she is African American, she is encouraged (putting it nicely) to abort. 3 out of 5 black babies never make it past a pregnancy confirmation inside a PPH clinic. (The grandmothers of these babies were offered the same ‘solution’ in the 60′s and 70′s when it wasn’t legal. They called it ‘a hardship’ regardless of marital or employment status. You’ll have to verify those facts among the women who had the experience). The 2 out of 5 who are born usually come two weeks early (the culprit is stress) and weigh a pound less than average. They are two to three times less likely to live to see their first birthdays. socio-economic status does not vary the statistic. In other words a Black woman with a college degree has a higher risk of poor birth outcome than a homeless Caucasian woman living in a shelter. You’ll find all of these and many more interesting facts on the March of Dimes website.

            You question the response to black on black crime rates as though they vary greatly from other same race crime rates. More facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States they do not. We don’t commit more crimes against each other or anybody else than any other race. Our conviction rates, how ever, are a different story. http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0008.htm these statistics actually more closely with the likelihood of a black child being poor. In similar circumstances black children and white children have the same likelihood of poverty. The statistics will make a connection between single parenthood and poverty for black children. What they fail to record are the percentage of domestic partnerships that exist within these ‘single parent’ homes. They also fail to list the impact of welfare on the employability of the presumed father, the cuts in benefits if the man is reported in the home, the fact that the insurance that covers pregnancy is what leads to welfare benefits, as they come through the same agency, that money collected in ‘back benefits’ from dads with above board jobs goes to pay the social workers ($40k a year to send out $483/month in benefits) and court systems ($50/month goes to the child), half of his income is taken until he shows in court (difficult with a suspended drivers license and warrants issued for FTA) along with any checking or savings account and tax refund dollars connected to his social security number (no notification required).
            I listed the types of agencies we employ in house to deal with the issues that can lead to crime. We also have to protect parents who have their children taken for ‘abuse’ when they address discipline issues corporally (better than police brutality later, no?), have a child go to the doctor for an injury that happened at daycare only to be reported for neglect because of a cavity, slow on shots (co-pays), leaving them home because no child care is available/affordable for the night shift, or the family got put out for a lease violation because two sisters decided to combine households to make ends meet and they ended up homeless. These situations are too common to be emotional about them. I could write for days just on what I have seen professionally, doing case management at a clinic, teaching at a job development program for the homeless, as a community doula, and as a mentor. There are more that are people I know personally.
            My point is two fold: we know what happens to us because it’s happening to us. And secondly, regardless of Zimmerman’s motive (why disappear if you’ve done nothing wrong?), the failure to follow protocols on the part of law enforcement simply confirms what we live every day; he’s a black kid, nobody cares. Ask yourself if you would be okay with me calling the police because your child was walking down my street. Ask yourself what reason I would have to do so if his skittles and iced tea were paid for. Ask yourself if me shooting him for any reason would make it ok for the police to at least question me if it happened while neither of us was at my house. Then ask how you would respond if anyone said you had to prove it was based on race when you knew that was the only difference between your kid, and the one before him and after him that walked down my street.

  7. Kairis,
    I am not being dismissive but I have read your last post twice looking for reasons you might give for believing that Zimmerman is a racist or that he shot Trayvon because of his race. Your reference to the recorded 911 call by Zimmerman to the police was as close as you got to producing an argument to support your opinion that Zimmerman sought Trayvon out because of his skin color. The content of that single call does not provides sufficient information for me to conclude that race was a factor in the shooting; neither does it rule out the possibility that race was in fact a factor.

    The balance of your comments covered a wide range of issues which are in need of addressing. Many of them concern not only the Black community but the rest of society in general. Perhaps others wish to discuss those other issues with you but in as much as they do not pertain to the question of whether race was a factor in the Zimmerman/Martin shooting I am going to take a pass on that discussion.

    • I don’t know how racist slurs dont convince you of his views. That’s not something I can fix. i’ll bet you a silver dime what will come out in the trial (if they find him) is that he went after Trayvon, got scuffed, and went back with a gun. Remember where you heard it first.

      • Hi Kairis,
        Thanks for responding so quickly. Could you describe or quote the racist slurs you heard in Zimmerman’s phone call? Maybe I did not hear the same version of the call as you did. If he did make such slurs then I stand corrected on that point.

        Perhaps you have inside information as to Zimmerman going to get a gun after having an initial an encounter with Trayvon. I don’t have access to that kind of detail about the event so I’ll not be taking you up on the bet. I’ll just wait for the info to come out at trial. If you are right, I’ll be the first one to say the I heard you say it first.

  8. As far as the rest, I responded to questions, you asked for facts to back them. I give facts you say the issues are unrelated. Its the string that tie together the overall experience of Black Americans and the mentalities that support it. I get that it’s too big to want to tackle in a discussion. Its almost to big for me.

    • Kairis,
      In reference to the list of issues you brought out in your previous post you said, “Its the string that tie together the overall experience of Black Americans and the mentalities that support it.”

      I understand that. And I can see that those issue cause Blacks Americans to feel the way you feel. And how Black americans feel about their lives in society would be related to a discussion of Trayvon Martin’s behavior. But they are unrlated to how Zimmermen feels (or felt on the night in question).

      The question posed at the beginning of this discussion was, “Is George Zimmerman a racist?” Jesse jackson, Al sharpton and the NBP’s have accused him of being a racist and you seem to be in agreement with them. What information do you have that causes you to believe that he is? That is all I have been asking of you.

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